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Pass The Buck
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Andrew Moray
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KevZim wrote:
Bump... Oh Anthony.... where are youooooo?


Had a reasonable excuse, honest....
http://www.completefisher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2392
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KZ
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing thought you probably would have Wink
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Andrew Moray
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Anthony, Tony, git ......

How long have you been fishing?
Since October '05

What types of fishing do you do?
Only ever tried flyfishing

Have you fished abroad?
Not yet, hoping to get Glynn's NZ tickets at a discount Very Happy

What species do you fish for?
Trout

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
The one that stands out is my son's first on the fly, but that I've caught ?, my first.
I'd started with a casting lesson, and the instructor had thought I'd progressed sufficiently for him to change the wool for a fly.
A #12 brown culdy, I still have it.
2nd cast to a rise and the water exploded !
I couldn't believe the power transmitting back to my forearm !!.
That was it for me.
Been out an average of 3 times a week since.
I regret to this day that I killed it.
I've since treated every fish I've caught with the utmost respect.

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
More a "type" of fishing than a place.
I've made plans to spend more time next season on rivers and fishing for wild fish in hill-lochs.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
Although there is the Access laws in Scotland, with potential conflict.
Like Roy, I see the biggest threat as the antis, and I believe that competition fishing will be the catalyst.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
Estimated by fellow angler - 7lb broonie.
Like Kev, I don't remove fish I intend to release.

Anything else you would like to share?
My VISA bill Wink


Over to you Chris..........................
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Chris
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Chris

How long have you been fishing?
Fly fishing for 13 years, coarse fishing for 17 years

What types of fishing do you do?
Fly fishing and some carp fishing. Hoping to start pike fishing too soon. Also want to understand saltwater fly fishing a bit more and get more experience in it.

Have you fished abroad?
Yes:
New Zealand - trout
Australia - barracuda
Thailand - catfish
USA - trout
Canada - trout
France - trout
Cook Islands - big game
Scotland and Wales (not quite abroad I know) - trout, salmon and grayling

What species do you fish for?
Anything that is willing to take a fly Smile

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
A 9lb wild brownie on a dry fly from a tributary of the Ahuriri in New Zealand. It was one of those perfect moments that happens so rarely and when it produces a fish it completes it!

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
Anywhere with good saltwater fly fishing!

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
I do think that conservation issues are beginning to be taken more seriously but there is still a long way to go. Fines for polluters need to be heavier and reflect the actual damage they cause.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
22lb 8oz common carp from a club water

Anything else you would like to share?
Only my signature - "you do not choose fly fishing, it chooses you"

And I'm passing the buck to.....

.......Wigger!
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Wayne
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Wayne

How long have you been fishing?

Fly fishing for the last 2 years, carp fishing for 26 years, pike fishing for 20 years and sea fishing on & off for 20 odd years.

What types of fishing do you do?
All of the above, fly fish and pike fish mainly loughs & ressies, not much opportunity for the carp fishing now I live in Northern Ireland but try to fish the odd session when i go back to visit parents, sea fishing is mainly in Donegal on my father-in-laws boat but hoping to fish a few marks local to myself with the fly rod next year.

Have you fished abroad?
I have. Not had much luck though, mostly the odd day while on holidays in Spain, Egypt and France.

What species do you fish for?
Anything that presents a challenge.

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
My first trout on a fly. Had been out a few times without no success at all while my fishing partner was catching all the time. I moved to a quite corner of a local dam and cast out a small black gnat, within seconds i saw a swirl and my line started to shoot off. Playing my first fish on a fly was a pleasure and from then on i have caught regularly and learned a lot from this forum.

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
A few places i would love to fish are Florida or anywhere else for marlin (its my ambition to catch a grandee), i would love to fish of the coast of South Africa for great whites and just lately i have had an urge to fish India for the mighty masheer.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
Very bleak, i hate to say it but over here we have a very serious problem with Eastern Europeans not respecting our traditions and taking anything and everything for the pot. I have heard of 20lb+ female pike being killed and this makes me both sad and angry. As for the situation with the sea stocks action must be taken sooner rather than later before irreparable damage is done.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
I have had a Blue Shark 15 miles off the coast of Looe estimated at around 134lb.

Anything else you would like to share?
I would like to just thank all my fellow members from the forum who have all passed down valuable expertise and information, so myself and others can master the fine art that is fly fishing. And also for sharing in the humor that abounds.


And I'm passing the buck to......


AdrianY9...... a valuable friend
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Adrian Young

How long have you been fishing?
bout 25 years now

What types of fishing do you do?
Fly fishing and occasional spinning for salmon

Have you fished abroad?

Noramlly just rivers haha no never fished abroad

What species do you fish for?
Browns,bows and Salmon

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
Yeah my first 1lb brownie. I caught it on our local river when i was about 15. We were fishing big sedges in darkness when i felt a bump, I struck and after a good wee scuffle i landed the first big brown of my career. In our local river a 1lb trout was a big fish and now they are very rare indeed with fish around 12 oz being a great fish now. Pity

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
I'm for British Colombia to fish the frazer next October so really looking forward to it.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
As i said above fish in our local rivers are being wiped out by f~*king farmers. Years ago big fish were part of the season and many rivers had nice stocks of these fish. The farmers are using more shite in their fields than before and with the longer rain spells we now have most of this gets flushed down feweder streams and into our main rivers. IN short if we dont wise up we'll be getting golf clubs for xmas soon.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
My biggest fish is a 13lb 2oz Rainbow

Anything else you would like to share?
I hate hate hate arseholes who take fishing too seriously. We all know them they give you a bum steer when you ask what fly they are using. I am a member of a wee fishing club and when fishing a competition for a trophy i have seen guys coming in for tea with match boxes covering their flies. Wise up get a life and lets all help each other and promote fishing to youngsters.

Buck passed to piscator
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: pass the buck Reply with quote

1. piscator 2. over 40 years 3. flyfishing 4.yes 5.trout and grayling 6. no, its the take that does it for me. size is irrelevant. 7.no, its more a case of a few places. 8.grim. 9. 12lb rainbow 10.yes, plenty, but you will read it on the forums s we go along. pass the buck to Paul
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Paul
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Paul Evans

How long have you been fishing?
17 years, of worming and spinning but only 4.5 fly fishing

What types of fishing do you do?
Mainy fly fishing now, but still ocaisionally spin and worm for Trout

Have you fished abroad?
Nope, took all the fly gear to Germany with the intention of using it once, but never did.

What species do you fish for?
Trout - Stocked and Wild Brownies, will be targetting grayling over the winter if the river ever drops enough Confused

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
4lb overwintered fish from Chew a few years back is probably the nicest fish I've caught, went 4 times around the boat before I had it under control. The only other fish that could equal that is a dead 2lb real Wild brownie from a stream about 6' across. Took a worm Smile in very coloured water.

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
Not really one single place, would like to try some of the big Irish Lochs one day, certainly have no interest in fishing in exotic locations, there's plenty of good fishing to be had within the UK.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
Not sure, but as already pointed out I think anti's are a far bigger and more worrying threat to the future of the sport.


What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
5lb 7oz Rainbow from Llandegfedd, far from the best fish Ive caught though

Anything else you would like to share?
Can't think of anything just now, may come back to this if somethign enters my head though Smile


Buck passed to Daver
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Dave Downie

How long have you been fishing?
22 years

What types of fishing do you do?
Fly Fishing, in Saltwater, freshwater, stillwaters and rivers

Have you fished abroad?
Yes Czech Republic, Colorado Springs

What species do you fish for?
Mostly, Trout, Grayling and anythign else that moves and can be caught on the fly

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
10lb 3ozs Over wintered fish from Loch Leven, not only first ever double caught from there with the records dating back over 100 years, but it grew on form a 1lb. Tail was 10" wide and seen the fish moving , well seen its tail dissapear, moved the 19ft clinker into position and ran up the front of the boat. Dropped the flies where I had seen the fish moving 10 seconds later the water erupted. 20 mins later and 3 huge runs it was in the net. Spotted it, targeted it, stalked it and caught it. All before most of the east coaster had got out fo there beds Wink


Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
Yes New Zealand and Australia in the World Championships

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
It will become an underground sport Sad and I will certainly be going to jail if they ban it cause I aint stopping fishing for no one except my kids Smile

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
Rainbow: - 21lb 3oz (Moffat Fishery) Pike - on fly 22lb Lower Lough Erne, Brown trout umptten a smidgen under 5lb from Loch Leven. Rainbow Record Lake of Mentieth 17lb 13ozs, Rainbow Loch Leven 10lb 3ozs.

Anything else you would like to share?
mmnnnn only one thing I know and you know where to get the best hand dyed fly-tying materials today Smile

Good Night and I pass onto Big Wull
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wull
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Wull

How long have you been fishing?
40+ years

What types of fishing do you do?
Freshwater flyfishing and SWFF whenever i am back home.
spinning for salmon and seatrout and maybe the occasional garden fly in the burns for the trout, again when i am back home.

Have you fished abroad?
yes i have fished in Spain and in Goa, India, both Saltwater, I will be taking my trusty Bloke to India again on February 07, this time hopefully i will get the chance to try the rivers in around the mangroves.

What species do you fish for?
Rainbows, browns on the Ressies , but hopefully i can get some river fishing locally in 2007 for trout.

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
There are a few fish that comes to mind, but the fish i would say that stands out for me is one i didnt catch.
When i was 10yrs old and fishing the worm on my local river back home on what was a full bank to bank spate, i casted out into the raging torrents and sat my rod on the bank only to see it getting pulled rapidly along the bank.
i lifted the rod quickly before it went into the river and found that i had a Salmon on.....my very first Salmon and there i was alone and didn't have a clue on how to land this, needless to say i lost the fish but the memory will stay with me forever.

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
I would love to fish over in British Columbia, Canada and possibly a trip to the Orkneys for the wild broons.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
I think if we dont take stock of whats happening with the Anti brigade we will be in dire straits.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
Conger at 35lb, Rainbow 15lb, seatrout 22lb and a wild broon at 5lb

Anything else you would like to share?

Aye , remember the Fishermans code at all times.
Early to bed
Early to rise
Fish like hell
and
Make up lies. Laughing Wink

I would like to pass the buck to Colin Boyd
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Colin M Boyd
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name?
Colin M Boyd (I always use the M as my eldest son has the same name. What a coincidence)

How long have you been fishing?
Ages. My entire family, Grandfather, Gran, plenty of uncles and aunts plus cousins used to go down the local river (Garnock) and spend the day together. I must have been 4 or 5 when I first chucked in a bright orange crab line. Swing it around your head then get the timing right to cast it in to the water. My first memory of a fish was a flounder caught on the crab line and a worm.

What types of fishing do you do?
Fly fish for anything that swims and have recently got myself right in to SWFF. Love it.
Do a wee bit of sea fishing with the mates from work. Ardnamurchan here we come August 2007.

Have you fished abroad?
Iíve fished in America. An east coast river just north of New York. Canít remember its name but I do remember that the locals couldnít cast to save them selves.
Fished in Sri-Lanka and India.

What species do you fish for?
If it swims Iíll have a go at catching it.

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
I was sea fishing off the Sri-Lankan coast with 4 locals. No rods, reels, bait or lures to be seen in the boat.
When I asked how are we going to catch fish. The only local who could speak a little English gave me a bottle of beer. Although it was hot and the beer was nice I still asked how are we going to catch fish without rods or reels and with no bait in sight.
After10 minutes of frantic hand and body gestures I finally understood what was happening.
The by now empty beer bottle was my fishing rod. Nylon was wrapped round the bottle with a small lead weight tied to the end. 4 bare hooks were tied on to droppers. You tipped the bottle over and the lead weight pulled the line from the bottle. As soon as it hit bottom I could feel a take. The fish in the area snapped at the bare hooks.
Once we had a few small fish about 9 inch to a foot long the English speaking local got out a big hook and some heavy duty nylon. One fish was then lip hooked with the hook tied on to what looked like 60 or 80lb nylon. This in turn was tied on to a bright orange buoy. The buoy was tied on to a rope and the lot was chucked over the back of the boat. After about a half hour the buoy dipped and I was in to my first Barracuda. The fish was landed after a breath-taking struggle with me on the other end of the rope splitting my sides laughing. That first Barracuda was in the region of 5 foot long. I caught three and lost one. The local village had them for their dinner at a party that night. The localís names were. Kalu, Ali, Brian (yes Brian) and La La.
La La was an ex presidential guard who has been shot 5 times. He knew his name was the same as a cuddly doll from a TV program in the UK. Didnít wind him up about it. Well not a lot.

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?
Any jungle river with the fly rod.
I have done some jungle river fishing in India. Once again I went out with a local. Donít tend to do the tourist stuff. We met up at 6 ish in the morning. Got aboard an elephant each and headed off in to the jungle. After about 2 hours riding the elephant I saw a yellow sign through the trees. When we were close enough to read the sign I nearly wet myself with laughter. The bright yellow sign was the entrance to an elephant park sort of thing. The sign had the rates for parking your elephant. I.E. 2 hours with water and food 20 rupees. 4 hours with water and food 30 rupees. 4 hours with water and food plus a trip in to the river 50 rupees.
Caught plenty of strange fish and even had a fish taken from me by a saltwater crocodile. These crocs live in the rivers and not just in the sea. On the way back to the elephant park we came across an Asian lion. I dint know lions could be found in Asia. Lucky for me my shorts were brown. They were light blue before stumbling across that lion. I still have a photo of the lion in the house somewhere. Taken with a shaky camera but you can see itís a lion.

I would love to do a similar trip in Cambodia. Why Cambodia. Why not, and I donít think they have lions.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?
The future looks bleak.
The greatest threat to angling are all the various people who in their own way are tying to save it.
With all these little organisations and trusts, angling is left fragmented with little or no voice.
These small organisations are all that far up their own arses they fail to see or are interested in the big picture.

Angling needs to be centralised and brought in to the community for it to survive in to the future.
The only organisation with any angling clout is the English and Welsh Environment Agency.
The E. A. is a government organisation that doesnít answer to the people who pay for it. I.e. YOU.
Although itís the strongest organisation out there it isnít in fact an angling org.
Itís an environmental organisation that is funded by anglers.
Why our southern kin pay up every year without asking questions is beyond me.

What we need is an organisation that is not only funded by anglers but is answerable to anglers.
We donít have an E.A in Scotland (yet) but if it were to be introduced it wouldnít receive my support.
As an angler I fail to see the point in paying in to an organisation that isnít angling based, doesnít have angling issues at its heart and is not answerable to the people who pay for it.

If we had an umbrella organisation that worked for angling and anglers and was accountable to the same then I would gladly join and pay my way.

Sadly not enough anglers give a toss.
Anglers need to get energised and debate issues, argue even but get interested.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?
Hooked a seal once and played it for over a half hour. Didnít land it but it was a biggie.
Salmon to 18lb+ on a 10 ft rod with a 6lb leader. (Isle of Mull).
Rainbow up to 15lb (ish) Beecraigs Loch. Fat slob of a fish and nothing to be proud of. Fought like a soggy corn flake.
Sea trout at 5 ¬Ĺ lb night fishing on the river Garnock.
Brown trout at 5 ¬ľ lb from Leven.
Pollock to12lb, spinning.
Pollock on the fly 7lb (ish) It went back to fight another day.
3 Barracuda all about 4 to 5 foot in length. Donít know what they weighed but the locals said they tasted great.


Anything else you would like to share?
Whilst motoring out to sea in a boat off Indiaís west coast the boat spooked flying fish. These things were a bottle green and about a foot in length. The wings or flying fins were each around 10 inches in length. One of these days Iím going to catch one on the fly rod. Should be fun.

Over to Simmo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name? Lindsay Simpson

How long have you been fishing?
17 years

What types of fishing do you do?
Competition fishing but have just discovered river fishing.

Have you fished abroad?
Yes France, Germany, Florida Keys/Everglades and Cyprus

What species do you fish for?
Stocked trout mostly but hope to add wild brown trout and grayling to the list soon

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?
No not really I am still waiting, my best fish was 8lb 1oz from a lake near where I live but it was stocked that size. I did catch a fish while fishing with Vince Brooke's at Bewl which went 7lb 13oz it was a cracker.

Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?Colorado

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?After watching last weeks accidental angler BLEAK is all I can say.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)? I caught a Jew fish in the everglades that the guide estimated at over 60lb

Anything else you would like to share?I have received a great deal of support since joining the forum and it reassures me that most people are generous and pleasant. Very Happy

Buck past to Alan B
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject: Sorry about the delay chaps and chapesses. Reply with quote

Name?

Alan Bithell No middle names that's it.

How long have you been fishing?

Do I really have to work this out? Somewhere around 33 years on and off. Seriously fly fishing for about 20 of those.

What types of fishing do you do?

Had a go at most things but my No.1 is wild brown trout in remote places. For me that is the best but it isn't often I can get to do the really good stuff. I like to split my season into 3 these days. I like the natural rhythm of it. Spring and summer is brown trout, autumn and the first half of winter is grayling then in the second half of the winter I like to have a go for the old chevin either trotting or ledgering bread.

Have you fished abroad?

Yes Scotland and wales! Seriously I have but not I haven't traveled specially to fish. I've just had a go while I have been there for "other" reasons. The Red Sea was one, the Falkland Islands another Germany.

What species do you fish for?

On and off most fish. 12 months ago I caught my first carp. Mostly I am a brown trout and grayling man but I will have a go for anything.


Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?

River Aire below Aireton Bridge 4lb 3 oz wild brown. Fought like stink but stayed in one pool never more than 20 feet from me. Still took about 20 minutes to get in.

One of my most memorable days was with a friend when we took (C&R) over 100 inches of wild brown trout in a day. Five fish!!!!!


Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?

No there are lots! I like to "collect" traditional flies and methods where they belong. I've fished dry fly on a Chalkstream, Bustads on the Eden, Spiders on the northern rivers. Still on the list are Catskill wets and drys (yes there is a range of traditional wet flies from the Catskills). Spain has some traditional flies that I will one day try on their rivers if I get chance. I suppose I could go to the Czech republic to fish bugs, that is almost a modern tradition.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?

Recently I have been talking with a friend about responsibility. It could be growing into a political party. The idea is nothing to do with blame but is about taking responsibility. The slogan My Space, My Responsibility. My community My Responsibility, My Country My Responsibility; has come out of this. I could add My Water, My Responsibility. It doesn't matter in this context who has left the water in the state we find it we (no that's wrong) I have to take responsibility for the state of the water will be in when we hand it on to the future generations.


What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?

Salmon River Spey (I said I'd fished abroad) about 6 lbs.

Anything else you would like to share?

I suppose that some of you would like to know about how I got into fly tying so...

I tied my first fly to a coarse fishing hook using fluff gathered from my mothers sewing machine and feathers from a pillow when I was about 10 or 11

In the mid to late 80's I bought my first fly tying kit. Tied on and off for about 4 years then did an evening class taught by Alan Roe of Lytham St Annes. That got me started properly.

Since then I have spent a lot of time tying, some of that commercially. I did enough to know that I can't make the kind of living that I would like to from production tying. Out of shear boredom at this time I taught myself to tie left handed. This is use full in teaching.

Now I stick to doing Demos up and down the country. And of course writing about it. I have sought to be able to understand each move I make in the tying of a fly so that I can explain it and the reason behind it.

I enjoy the banter of doing the demos and love teaching when I get the chance.

Cheers
Alan.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan,
Now you need to nominate the next person to answer Very Happy

Cheers

Chris
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Location: Holmfirth

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got a pm form Alan and he passed the buck to me so here goes!

Name?

Michael Pogson

How long have you been fishing?

Off and on since I was a small lad so about 30 years, but I've been fly fishing obsessed for the last 10.

What types of fishing do you do?

Mainly fly fishing for wild brown trout and grayling, although I do usually have a couple of days a year in the summer course fishing usually trying to catch tench.

Have you fished abroad?

I was lucky enough to fish in West Bohemia in the Czech Republic in September 2005 and in 1999 fished a little whilst on holiday in the Drakensberg Mountains in South Africa.

What species do you fish for?

Mainly brown trout and grayling.

Is there one fish that stands out in all the ones you have caught?

A 24 inch brown trout that I caught in the River Colne just out of Huddersfield Town Centre was a beauty, it was February and I was bugging for grayling and then all of a sudden something took my nymph and set off down stream taking loads of fly line with it. After trying to give it slack so it could shake itself off and having no joy I had to resign myself to landing it. It took about 10 minutes to bring it to the net and then I had to hold it up in the freezing water for 10 minutes before it swam off again. A great fish, I really hope it made it.


Is there one place you would like to fish in the future that you have not yet fished?

I'm really hoping to fish the Tarn in Lozere Southern France next year as in pictures it looks fantastic. Also hoping to fish the Welsh Dee early next year for grayling. I would also really like in the future to fish in the USA around Yellowstone.

What is the future for our waters if we do not take notice of the conservation issues?

As I mainly fish on Rivers that up until recently were void of life due to the legacy of our industrial revolution I'm quite optomistic. I think that for many of us we need to reappraise the kind of fishing we want, and maybe fishing in places where previously we wouldn't have bothered. However we should not be complacent as like all our natural resources we are only borrowing them from our children.

What's the heaviest fish you've caught (any species)?

I tend not to weigh fish as I tend to practice catch and release most of the time especially with anything bigger than 12 inch. However the 24 inch brownie must have been close to the heaviest.

Anything else you would like to share?

Nothing other than in recent years I have had a go at competition fly fishing on the rivers and this has really focused my mind and improved my catch returns immensely. I really enjoy the competition fishing and would recommend any one to give it a go.

Cheers

Mick Pogson
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