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Small welsh river trout flies (Wye & Usk)

 
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bugbrand

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:19 am    Post subject: Small welsh river trout flies (Wye & Usk) Reply with quote

Hiya,

Next week I'll be staying near Monmouth and would like to take the chance to try at least one or two of the Wye & Usk foundation waters - I got a 7.5foot 4weight setup last year and ordered a pair of chest waders last night.

Interested to try: Monnow Valley: http://www.wyeuskfoundation.org/fishing/obs/beat_details.php?beat=monnow
(chest waders are apparently very necessary here)

And maybe this voucher beat: http://www.wyeuskfoundation.org/fishing/r47-lowergrywnefawr.php

I've not fished anywhere like this before so wondered if anyone could recommend a small selection of flies that may provide a good starting point. I'll either try to tie a few or maybe head to a shop as I don't have a large selection of good hackles at the moment.

I'm guessing an approach with some nymphs and some dries - probably all quite small.

Thanks for any help.
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starsky
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

I do a fair bit of fishing on the W&U waters and can tell you what works for me.
In regards to nymphs I mainly use tungsten bead Hare's Ears or PTN's normally in size 16 when fishing the duo method or sometimes size 14 when fishing just nymphs. I also vary the colour of the beads depending on water clarity,brighter(gold) colours when the water is coloured up and darker when clear(copper,gunmetal).
In regards to dries the basic flies I would take would be Olive patterns in size 14 and 16,black F Flies in size 18 and 20. I also would take some Adams parachutes in size 16 and 14. The only other dry fly I wouldn't be without is a Balloon Caddis in size 10 and 12. That fly is great for the duo and when there is a Caddis hatch on.
That's my basic flies but as I said others will fish with different flies but the one thing what is more important when fishing small rivers is stealth especially in the current clear conditions.
Above all enjoy your day in a beautiful part of the world. I have just got back from a weeks trip to Brecon and had a great time.
Mark
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MarkS
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom
I would go with what Mark said and may be some small klinks. I would prospect with duo or trio.
Skenfrith beat on the Monnow is close Very nice piece of water if you can get on it.

http://www.wyeuskfoundation.org/fishing/obs/beat_details.php?beat=skenfrith

Possibly need a longer rod for this section though.

Cheers,
Mark
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bugbrand

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for taking my shakey ideas and fleshing them out with some good examples -- I was imagining Hare's Ears and PTNs for the nymphs, but the details on beads and sizes will be of great help.

Similarly good pointers on the dries - the names you gave rang bells, but it was only when I did a google image search that I really understood. I made a few klink-ish parachutes last night and now can do some more variants along the lines suggested.

So, thanks!

I actually know the area pretty well having grown up around those parts - but never fished any of these rivers so I'm really looking forward to it.

One more question -- the DUO method -- is this where you have a dry fly with a nymph below? Maybe with the dry acting as a bite indicator?
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Paul
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugbrand wrote:


One more question -- the DUO method -- is this where you have a dry fly with a nymph below? Maybe with the dry acting as a bite indicator?


Yep you got it - It's rare that I set out doing anything different to that method. As for flies well everyone has they own preferences and I strongly beleive that actual fly pattern is far less critical on rivers than on stillwaters most of the time. HEs, PTNs in one form or another seem to find their way into most river fishermans fly boxes and I suspect account for a large portion of the fish caught over the season. Far more critcal to the pattern itself is the size and importantly it's weight IMO. Better to carry just a few simple patterns in several different weights than to have a boxful of different patterns for every eventuality but all being similar sizes and weights. As a rule of thumb the faster and more coloured the water the larger the nymph and of course the larger the indicator you'll need. To know what size / weight of fly to start with is comes down to knowing the type of water your fishing along with a bit of guesswork follwed by some trial and error whilst fishing - use too light a fly and it'll not sink a few inches in a fast flow - fine in some situations but not normally what you want. Use a fly that is too heavy and you'll be caught up in the bottom far too much. On smaller rivers where you are likely to come across a varying depth and pace of water I very often swap flies (same pattern in different wieghts) especially for certain pools. As for rough sizes with the rivers as they are here at the moment I'd be expecting to use 14s with say 2.5mm bead heads or even 16s with 2mm bead heads if you can get away with a relatively light fly moving up to 12s (3mm bead) or possibly even 10s (4mm+ bead) if you have a very fast deep pool - it's a guide only and really only experience tells you what to use when - what the fish prefer changes day to day even when conditions appear to be identical so you should experiment a bit. I see the weight and size of the fly as the key to getting the flies where they need to be, not so much a case of trying to match the size of the naturals so even if a fish is feeding on microscopic naturals getting a size 10 with a 4mm tungsten beadhead to swim drag free past it's nose will often result in a take - 9 times out of 10 you won't achieve a drag free , natural drift if you're using a fly of the wrong size for that particular bit of water.

Anyway as for a few patterns that work well for me on the rivers and streams in the area, None of which are particuarly fancy which makes them easy to tie.





And for indicators as before the deeper and faster the fiver the heavier the nymphs you'll need and so the bigger and more bouyant the indicator needs to be. I normally find that a large Klinkhamer (10 Klinkhamer hook is big) will hold up a single 3mm tungten bead but more than one nymph or a heavier fly might call for a purpose made indicator (this is the method I've settled on for that: http://www.completefisher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11257). I would think that the river levels will be low enough to mean though that a more conventional duo or perhaps even trio method will be ample though in which case I'd opt for a Klinkhamer or Stimulator:


Don't underestimate just how helpful hi-vis posts are if you fish this method white posts might look a bit more natural but try picking out the fly against white foam and bubbles or in broken water and you'll soon wish you had some technicolor ones in the box.

If you are lucky enough to have free rising fish all around you the Klinkhamer above even in seemingly huge proportions often catch other days parachute adams and simple F flies work for me and so I've never bothered tying or using anything more elaborate - again I'd imagine that the size / profile of the fly and how it sits on / in the water would be more important than the actual pattern itself.

Sorry for going on a bit I started out adding a few pictures of flies but quickly realised that the patterns themselves were meaningless without some extra background info - seemed that way to me when I re-read the post anyway. I'm sure you'll do just fine on your trip if the fish are infront of you, if you aren't catching don't stand like a gnome in one place going through every fly in the box - move on to the next likely looking spot. The more water you cover the better your chances no matter what fly you use!.
Good luck let us know how you get on...
Paul.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent advice as usual Paul.
In regards to sight indicators i was introduced to a new style last week by someone who shall remain unnamed from this forum. They are called Thingymabobbers(sp)and have to say they are the best I gave used. As they are easily adjusted on the leader they allow you to quickly change the depth at which you are fishing you your flies and they also float very well. That might have something to do with them looking suspiously like a bubble float albeit a small one. Once I had sold my fishing soul to the devil I was quite happy to use them.
Mark
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bugbrand

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
...Sorry for going on a bit I started out adding a few pictures of flies but quickly realised that the patterns themselves were meaningless without some extra background info - seemed that way to me when I re-read the post anyway. I'm sure you'll do just fine on your trip if the fish are infront of you, if you aren't catching don't stand like a gnome in one place going through every fly in the box - move on to the next likely looking spot. The more water you cover the better your chances no matter what fly you use!.
Good luck let us know how you get on...
Paul.


Sorry for going on?! No -- that is absolutely great information - thanks so much for such in depth discussion.
I'd certainly read (in my limited experience) that presentation & stealth was going to be much more important than simply 'the right fly' - I think it is said that fast river trout will naturally be quite opportunistic in their eating habits.

I'll do a bit more tying so that I've got a reasonable selection of flies to try -- there will no doubt be a lot of learning on(in) the water, but I'm pretty darn sure that these rivers will be amazing fun and, of course, a lovely setting.

Cheers!
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bugbrand

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a nice day on the Monnow Valley beat yesterday and even managed to catch a couple of very fit little 6" brownies!

Very pleasant location though access to the water IS tricky at times - bit of scrambling etc and this was my first time wading (new chest waders) so maybe I was being a bit cautious. But with a mile of fishing there were still plenty of areas to try. The water was quite muddy due to rain over the weekend and probably the water level was up a bit too.

When I arrived around 2pm there were lots of big black hawthorns around where I parked up, but less around the water. In fact I only saw a few fish rising all day. So I began trying nymphs, but didn't get any results with this (probably poor technique!). Once I came across a rising fish I could get to I put on a little black size 16 dry and soon enough had the little guy in my hands (of course wetted hands before and was using barbless hooks!). I know they're nothing like the big rainbows you find in stillwaters, but they're great fun on a light setup.

I had to head home for an hour (to feed dogs & chickens) around 5pm - just before leaving I found a couple of poachers up at the top of the beat! Reported to WUF once I was back in phone coverage. Chores completed I headed back for the evening presuming there may be a bit of a rise -- there was quite a lot of insect life including what behaved like mayflies (similar shape and would do that customary rising and falling flight - though maybe a little small?) but still very few rising fish.

I managed one more little ripper (6" brown again) which I found rising but other than that there wasn't much. I did try prospecting stretches of water with dries but unless I'd seen something rising there didn't seem any interest.

I've got a couple of pics on my phone but will have to wait 'til I'm back in Bristol to get the required cable.

Now, where to go today?!
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you had a good day and got into some fish.

Mark
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Bazza
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Paul

The patterns like an eye or what appear like indentations on the beadheads are they actual
or merely as result of camera flash or whatever.

If they are actual, have not seen anything like them down here.
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Paul
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bazza The bead are plain round beads the ring you are seeing is due to the light I was using when photographing them - it's one of them anglepoise magnifying lens' with a circular tube around it hence the circular reflection.
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